Curse

XosirisX · Dec 02, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

this is an idea wich should be implanted in an entire chapter:

1. Basic Idea

the map is spreaded with loads of outposts (they'll be ranked 1-5 or something like that). the basic idea is that every outpost, city and mission can be captured by a guild/alliance.

2. capturing/defending an Outpost

to capture an outpost you have to talk to a specific person in the outpost and submit a challenge to the controlling guild (there's a max of 2 challenges every 24 hours). when the controlling guild accepts your challenge (wich they will have to because they will lose their outpost if they don't accept your challenge within 24 hours) , both you and the controlling guild will have to select the 12 players that will fight (and your alliance ONLY, no guests, no heroes, no henchman) then when both are ready again you start the mission and the 12 people of your alliance will travel to a map depending on the rank of the outpost. every outpost will first be defended by an army of lvl 20-28 npcs depending on the outpost rank. the rank of the outpost and the location determines what map the game will be played on (for example if there are walls, what triggers the gate to open, if there are catapults to bombard the walls, how many and what npcs, wich lvl the npcs are, outposts in snowy terrain will be played on snowy maps etc.)
guilds can buy additional defenses for their outpost when they have enough money (for example 20k for an extra archer (max 5 extra archers)) or buy additional NPCs or war machines or perhaps exploding catapult ammo instead of plain rocks to help them capture an outpost.

3. benefits of controlling an outpost

controlling an outpost will generate taxes, these taxes will be available for the leader of the alliance only! some outposts might have additionals income like a stone quarry wich generates stone materials or maybe a rank 5 outpost with a diamond mine generating diamonds. higher ranked outposts without a stone quarry or mine generate additional taxes. let's say a rank 1 outposts generates 5k each day and every rank upwards doubles the number that would be: 5-10-20-40-80k each day, a material will be the equilevant of how much they are worth at the trader.

4. example outpost map
(i know my paint skills are unmatched but please dun beg for authographes)

quick explanation: this is an very basic example of a rank 4 outpost on grassland terrain. assault team spawns with 3 separate squads who communicate through the team chat (as alliance battles) at their respective spawn points stands a npc of wich they can learn the Light Flare skill wich steers the catapult, the defending team spawns in their fortress. assault team needs to capture the 2 capture points in the fortress (who double as spawn points for the defending team) to conquer the outpost. defending team needs kill all the NPCs (all lvl 30 warriors) who give flare (the ones near the assault spawn points) or perhaps easyer out DP the assault team (assault team gets a morale boost by destroying a gate). assault team needs to repair a catapult with a repair kit to blow up the gate the catapult needs to be steered with light flare to get entrance to the 2 fortress capture points. defending team needs to repair their gates with a repair kit wich yields them a morale boost.

Knightsaber Sith · Dec 02, 2006, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Sounds too much like Factions with towns being owned...
I don't think they'd ever allow for the kind of monetary return you're suggesting.

If this new game mechanic is supposed to be all there is in the campaign; it wouldn't go over well being nothing but pvp. If there was to be an actual storyline with it like a standard campaign; I think the lore to go along with towns being able to be captured would be too much like Factions.

Morrin · Dec 02, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

I like some of it. Sounds alot like Lineage. I think, though, that it needs to be thought out a little more.

Take NPC's can you upgrade them? How many (exactly) can you get. Can you buy new skills for them? If you buy them for defence can you also buy them to help you in your offence?

Also would you need crafting materials to build such things as catapults, new gates, and NPC's?

I'm also going to have to agree with Knightsaber. I think the monetary return would throw off the fragil economy that already exists in the GW world, it would give all the power, in other words, to the biggest guild, and if your not part of this guild your out in the cold.

Also I think the challenge system and actualy battle sytem need to be rethought. Allowing only 12 members in may not be enough to acuratly gage the quality of a guild. Also what happens if a guild leader goes on vacation for two days? Does that guild automatically lose any chance to retain their post because their guild leader didnt think to tell anyone he was going afk?

I like the idea

I just think there is a little more to it than what has already appeared.

Kai Nui · Dec 03, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

I think I agree with you on one thing... Guild Wars should have Guild Wars in it...

Hell Marauder · Dec 03, 2006, 01:30 AM // 01:30

/signed
Yeah, we need a big, ongoing, and persistent war which everybody can pitch in and be part of. A war can unite ppl in the same camp together, give them group identities, and provide a larger reason to play. Pvers can fight against npc soldiers and pvpers can fight each others. We need an atmosphere of constant dangers and tensions in every outpost, to remind us that this gameworld is indeed alive. BTW, while we're at it, they should make a mode similar to AB in a centralized island so ppl who don't own Factions can have some mindless pvp fun too.

MithranArkanere · Dec 03, 2006, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Done already in Factions, the taxes are refund in the costs of Merchant items.

Zinger314 · Dec 03, 2006, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Guild Wars was based after the Guild Wars event in Tyria.

Yes, in retrospect, it's a bad title. But what can you do?

Anti Oath · Dec 03, 2006, 03:54 AM // 03:54

I have to say, when i first heard about the concept of owning towns in Factions, i was quite amazed. Then i found out how gay it was...I expected something more like your idea for Factions.
We just need a place like the "Wild" for pvp

shardfenix · Dec 03, 2006, 07:49 AM // 07:49

What if a korean guild is challenged by an American guild? Some people sleep, you know.

I get the general feeling of your idea, and I would like to see it happen, but those ideas are too specific. I would like to see "Guild Wars" instead of "Guild Pillow Fights" as we have in 8v8 guild battles. The only problem, as I already said, is time zones.

XosirisX · Dec 03, 2006, 11:08 AM // 11:08

i know the challenge etc isn't going to work but instead of just saying that it wun work you could also propose another system.

-it's not like faction, faction u get the outpost if you farm enough, and what's the point in having the outpost? how many times you actually go travel to your outpost to buy a identification kit?, the whole point is that what i suggested is going to be a constant guild war, with factions i think nobody really cares about the outposts other then HzH an cavalon, here you actually get gold wich you can invest in better npcs wich will help you either defend this outpost or capture a new and better one.

-about the npcs, i think manually set all the npcs etc might be more then GW can handle and it'll be much work, i think it's easyer toi have a pre-set build and to just make upgrades like lvl 20 archer-lvl 22- lvl 24 wich will count for all the archer npcs you get when defending and the cost'll range between 25-50k depending on how much archers/wich rank your outpost is.

btw, all i've heard are things that are wrong, maybe you people can help think of solutions? i mean prophecies, factions and NF aint thought up by one person in half an hour either

Morrin · Dec 03, 2006, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Sry, was just trying to be constructive. Sometimes if others pick out the flaws it can be easier to fix them yourself.

Return
I think that the "funds" provided by the outpost would provide an insurmountable edge to whoever held the outpost first. Therefore instead of recieving currency such as gold, they could perhaps recieve some form of curency that could only be used on the guild hall improvements themselves?

Then we may ask ourselves what would be the point of taking an outpost if there is no immediate return. Truthfully I don't know... I'm sure there is something. Perhaps the gains you get from the hall itself could be given a value. Just like the Imperial Seals are worth about 8k in factions. Just not as much.

Challenge System
Perhaps instead of a challenge system you could have a random matching? Every 7-10 days (just a suggested period) a battle would occur over the rights to the castle.

You and your allies would be pitted against the opposing force and their allies.Perhaps the other side would sign a list to have thier guild added to the list of those wanting challenge yours? The battles just occur in order first come first serve sorta thing.

Since, I assume, no guild would be allowed to hold more than one outpost at a time it would be a simple matter to defend it once whithin a time period. And if the battles are scheduled before hand it would not be difficult for an active guild to make sure that its members are on at the time. Audvious exceptions Holidays. Yes some would miss, a family member would need to be cared for, their internet connection went down, but in that case there is always next week.

As to the different time zones matter. American guilds hold American servers Korean Guilds Korean servers. Not the best solution, but a fair one.

As to the NPC's. I'm not really good with numbers so I will let someone much smarter than me tackle that.

EatMoreCarbs · Dec 03, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

This sounds like a good idea, but what about small guilds? These guilds would be too small to own a town and wouldnt be able to control anything, therefore making everybody want to get into a large guild, but there is still the limit of how many people can get into a guild and theres a LOT of players, too many guilds and it would look really sloppy.

Alotia Slipfeet · Dec 03, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Actually by the sound of it the only alliances that would miss out would be the pve only alliances that have very little exp in pvp, you dont have to be big to be good.

XosirisX · Dec 03, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

nobody forces your guild/alliance to control an outpost, it's not like: if you don't controll this outpost you can't use the merchant etc like kurzicks in luxon territory.

@morrin, yeah i was thinking about credits that can be used on the upgrades only but if so there's no real point in having an outpost just as it's pointless to have an outpost in factions unless it's the hzh or cavalon. about the challange system...this would make controlling an outpost random cause only 1 alliance can challenge, that alliance will have to be picked out from a bunch of alliances. perhaps there could be a challenge mission for each outpost (only a couple of different missions) and the guild who gets the highest score every week get's the chance to challenge the owners of the outpost. this would require a mix of pve and pvp to controll the outpost.

KillaKarl · Dec 03, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

ok first off this wouldnt work or be fair to players/guilds and heres why

1. small guilds wouldnt win
2. u would have to own factions
3. the huge alliances already in factions would dominte this completely

heres my idea

first off the first guild wars was fought over control of the bloodstones so since weve already uncovered 2 in the game, it would be a good idea to uncover a few more then have these areas be turned ito massive pvp spots that would yeild special rewards to the victor of each battle

reward idea
1. a random max dmg gold item (possibly class specific ex: warrior can get a gold sword/axe/hammer/sheild) that appears directly in your inventory for EACH player who wins, if no room it drops reserved in front of you

2. there could also be a additional special reward to certain ppl (ex: most kills) these reward would get u an additional gold item

battle ideas

1. each kill gets u 25 balthazar faction

2. there are two ways this can work either a full guild team of 8 can face TEN OTHER full guild teams of 8 for control (to win u must kill EVERY single other team) or we can do full guild vs full guild as in 100 vs 100

only problem with this idea is it is VERY discriminating against smaller guilds

so what do u think of my idea

Morrin · Dec 04, 2006, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Then we may ask ourselves what would be the point of taking an outpost if there is no immediate return. Truthfully I don't know... I'm sure there is something. Perhaps the gains you get from the hall itself could be given a value. Just like the Imperial Seals are worth about 8k in factions. Just not as much.

Just thought I'd reprint that

I'm saying you get 10k (Whatever you want to call what you get from your outpost to use on it) it is worth 8k actual gold. Something like that where it will sort of balance it out.

And to Killa, I see your point about having to have factions, but that would only be if it were made factions specific. I may have missed a point that someone else made aobut it being Factions specific, but I would try to implement this in the next game.

As to the not being fair to smaller Guilds I agree, but it stands to reason that, just like in factions, there would be guild specifics. A certin Guild works for faction, another is stricktly GvG, and others are either PvP or Pve, and some dont choose one at all. They simply have fun.

IT would be a sacrifice. You wan't the outpost you have to work for it. If that means recruiting like crazy then do it.

Another way I suppose to try to make it fair would be to match teams? You can only bring as many as the other guild has, but then you would have a guild of 1 go against a guild of 50 and the 1 would win.

I think if u make it selective enough using XosirisX's idea :

"perhaps there could be a challenge mission for each outpost (only a couple of different missions) and the guild who gets the highest score every week get's the chance to challenge the owners of the outpost. this would require a mix of pve and pvp to controll the outpost."

And perhaps a fee for beginning the quest?

You will get a well rounded number, and you wont have groups that truly dont want to be there. Or who want it but won't do the work.

XosirisX · Dec 04, 2006, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillaKarl

ok first off this wouldnt work or be fair to players/guilds and heres why

1. small guilds wouldnt win
2. u would have to own factions
3. the huge alliances already in factions would dominte this completely

1. do small guilds own outposts in factions? no, do we force people to go in small guilds? no, they could just as wel join a bigger alliance if they want an outpost or the small guild should recruit more.

2. where did u get the idea of it would be factions only?

3. would be harder tho: FFing and controlling an outpost at the same time?, and btw, this would stimulate people creating more huge alliances wich could rival the already existing huge alliances.

btw, i dun see the point why small guilds/alliances would be discriminated...the battle is fought with 12 people or 8...not with 100 if u got 12 active members good in both pvp and pve or 24, 12 pve and 12 pvp, u'll have a better chance in controllign an outpost then if u got an alliance with 300 random people who never learned to play as a team...

jesh · Dec 04, 2006, 09:22 AM // 09:22

/signed for the whole large scale pvp thing

It won't happen though, know why? Lineage is currently the cash cow for NCSoft, and I don't think they'd want GW cutting in on that with the same type of pvp. Maybe the developers at ANet WANT to do something like this, but people higher up won't let them.

Yay for conspiracies.

TheBaron82 · Dec 04, 2006, 09:29 AM // 09:29

I like the idea of big battles, but AB proved me wrong. Big Battles= more afker. Also guild wars skills are meant for 8vs8 otherwise aoe might be too overpowered. Anyway that's how I feel.
/notsigned

Aegeroth · Dec 04, 2006, 01:05 PM // 13:05

1. Time Zones
2. Skills, not all players are great, for example the top guilds would end up dominating, and possibly just one guild. What then? Map Reset?